Re: a dumb query? pls humor me
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:00:39 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote in
[🔎] 20070326010039.GA18402@santiago.connexer.com:
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2007 at 10:47:41PM +0000, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> ..reposting, last try was lost in gmane's auth queue.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:31:03 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote in
>> [🔎] 20070320003103.GJ31767@santiago.connexer.com:
>>
>> > Reference? Where has President Bush stated that war criminals should
>> > not be prosecuted?
>>
>>
>> ..here I should have said "US war criminals", Sissy Boy George decided
>> back in October 2001 he wanted to be able to commit war crimes legally.
>> Google for "executive orders 2001".
>>
>>
> Well, let's see. Here is a list of every executive order published in
> 2001 [0]:
>
> Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession in the Department of
> Veterans Affairs Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession at the
> Department of State Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession at the
> Department of Labor Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession at the
> Department of Housing and Urban Development Dec. 29 Executive
> Order on Succession at the Department of Health and Human Services Dec.
> 29 Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Interior
> Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession at the Department of
> Commerce Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession at Department of
> Agriculture Dec. 29 Executive Order: Adjustments of Certain
> Rates of Pay Dec. 29 Executive Order on Succession in Department
> of Treasury Dec. 28 Executive Orders on Succession in Federal
> Agencies Dec. 27 Normal Trade Relations Treatment Executive
> Order Dec. 21 Council of Europe in Respect of the Group of
> States Against Corruption Dec. 20 Executive Order Establishing
> An Emergency Board Dec. 14 Afghanistan Combat Zone Executive
> Order Dec. 6 Executive Order for Federal Government Closure on Dec 24
> Nov. 28 Executive Order: Creation of the President's Council on
> Bioethics Nov. 27 Executive Order Waiver of Dual Compensation
> Provisions of the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement Act of 1964
> Nov. 16 National Emergency Construction Authority Executive
> Order Nov. 13 President Issues Military Order Nov. 9 Citizen
> Preparedness in War on Terrorism Executive Order Nov. 1 Presidential
> Records Act Executive Order Oct. 22 Executive Order for Dept of
> Health and Human Services Oct. 16 Executive Order on Critical
> Infrastructure Protection Oct. 12 Educational Excellence for
> Hispanic Americans Commission Oct. 8 Executive Order Establishing
> Office of Homeland Security Oct. 3 Executive Order on Excellence in
> Special Education Oct. 1 Continuance of Federal Advisory Committees
> Oct. 1 President Signs PCAST Executive Order Sept. 24 Executive
> Order on Terrorist Financing Sept. 14 President Orders Ready
> Reserves of Armed Forces to Active Duty Aug. 17 Executive Order
> on Export Control Regulations Jul. 31 Energy Efficient Standby
> Power Devices Jul. 2 Executive Order
> Jun. 20 President Bush Issues Executive Order Regarding 21st
> Century Workforce Initiative Jun. 19 President Bush Issues
> Executive Order Regarding Community-Based Alternatives for Individuals
> with Disabilities Jun. 6 Executive Order: Amendment To Executive Order
> 13125 Jun. 1 Executive Order
> May 29 President's Task Force to Improve Health Care Delivery for Our
> Nation's Veterans May 23 Executive Order: Additional Measures with
> Respect to Prohibiting the Importation of Rough Diamonds from Sierra
> Leone May 18 Executive Order: Actions Concerning Regulations That
> Significantly Affect Energy Supply, Distribution, or Use May 18
> Executive Order: Actions to Expedite Energy-Related Projects May 2
> Executive Order: President's Commission to Strengthen Social Security
> Apr. 30 Executive Order: Establishment of the President's Task
> Force on Puerto Rico's Status Apr. 6 Executive Order: Amendment to
> Executive Order 13202 Apr. 5 Executive Order: Further Amendment to
> Executive Order 10000 Apr. 4 Executive Order: Termination of Emergency
> Authority For Certain Export Controls Mar. 9 Executive Order:
> Establishing an Emergency Board Feb. 21 Executive Order on
> Preservation of Open Competition and Government Neutrality Towards
> Government Contractors' Labor Relations on Federal and Federally Funded
> Construction Projects Feb. 21 Executive Order on Notification of
> Employee Rights Concerning Payment of Union Dues or Fees Feb. 21
> Executive Order: Revocation of Executive Order on Nondisplacement of
> Qualified Workers under Certain Contracts Feb. 21 Executive
> Order and Presidential Memorandum Concerning Labor-Management
> Partnerships Feb. 12 Executive Order on the President's
> Information Technology Advisory Committee Jan. 29 Agency
> Responsibilities with Respect to Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
> Jan. 29 Executive Order: Establishment of White House Office of
> Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
>
> Now, I read all the orders relating to anything military. Nothing in
> there about war crimes.
..interesting, both Adolf and Slobodan played similar games with words.
..anything on "international courts" or "the 4 Geneva Conventions"?
>> > Where is the evidence that troops are committing war crimes?
>>
>> ..eh, I did this dance with Slobo's Shills too, 10-15 years back, chk
>> your media against the full 4 Geneva Conventions.
>>
> Would that be the media that refuses to report any positive occurences
..try my method of balancing Fox against al-Jazeera, Xinhua, Kommersant,
CNN etc against the full 4 Geneva Conventions. ;o)
> (like making neighborhoods safer, building power infrastructure,
> building schools, providing medical care, capturing bad guys and so on)?
> Because if it is the same media, I won't believe anything they say. What
> you fail to understand is that nearly everyone in the military takes the
> law *very* seriously. Now, just as in any large organization, there are
> a few bad apples. For example, just because someone at the telephone
> company sells a list of phone numbers to telemarketers does not mean
> that every single employee of the phone company is a criminal. Same with
> the military, as 99.9% of the people in uniform are decent, law abiding
> and doing their jobs in accordance with the law.
..see below.
>> > Well, there is the whole thing about lawful combatants being required
>> > to wear a distinguishable uniform with distinctive insignia.
>>
>> ..one of these suffices, both together are preferred, and you deny the
>> "Let's roll!"-people aboard flight UA93 their lawful KIA status, when
>> they "took up arms against the invading enemy."
>>
> Umm, they were acting in self-defense.
..yes.
> Big difference.
..no, self defence is _no_ different to _any_ other kinda bellingerence
in its requirement for _full_ compliance.
> Of course, your
> continued ranting only serves to reinforce that you are either just
> intent on stirring the pot, or that you really don't get it.
..I am fully aware of the fact Sissy Boy George is trying to escape the
US War Crimes Act and the Coventions. Both authorize hanging.
>> > Again, engaing in combat while not in uniform == automatically not
>> > lawful combatant.
>>
>> ..you deny the "Let's roll!"-people aboard flight UA93 their lawful KIA
>> status, when they "took up arms against the invading enemy."
>>
> Ibid.
>
>> > Well, in this case, no matter what the US does, they are wrong. Kill
>> > them on sight (they are not lawful combatants) and
>>
>> > there is public outcry.
>>
>> ..is irrelevant, as lawful occupant you have to educate them on their
>> rights under Article 144 in the 4'th Convention:
>> http://www.themissing.cicr.org/IHL.nsf/WebPrint/380-600166-ART?
>> OpenDocument
>> http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebPrint/380-600166-COM?OpenDocument
>> http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/WebPrint/380-600166-ART?OpenDocument
>>
> The High Contracting Parties undertake, in time of peace as in time
> of war, to disseminate the text of the present Convention as widely
> as possible in their respective countries, and, in particular, to
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> include the study thereof in their programmes of military and, if
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> possible, civil instruction, so that the principles thereof may
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> become known to the entire population.
>
> I don't know about civil instruction, but the military certainly teaches
> about the GCs.
..chk my response to Ron.
> Any civilian, military, police or other authorities, who in time of
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> war assume responsibilities in respect of protected persons, must
> possess the text of the Convention and be specially instructed as to
> its provisions.
>
> Yup. Military police and lawyers receive extra training on the GCs.
> Having never been a police or a lawyer, however, I can't say whether
> they carry the text with them, but I imagine that they do.
..yes they are supposed to, and you're entitled to hang anyone to argues
them the way you do in the face of the language of the Conventions, just
go by the rules in them.
>> > Take them prisoner and the there is public outcry. What other
>> > options are there?
>>
>> ..full compliance to the full 4 Geneva Conventions. Would have allowed
>> a fully lawful hanging of Saddam.
>
> What do you mean would have?
.."going by the book" in full compliance of the full 4 Geneva Conventions
would have provided a firm and full legal foundation of Saddam's hanging,
even if he cooked laws to allow himself "Jew babies for dinner" kinda war
crimes.
> It did?
..no.
> He was hanged.
..yes. Murder on a POW.
> Tried by the Iraqis.
> Remember? There were a couple of news reports about it.
..yes, illegally so. As a POW, he should have had an Article 90 hearing.
>> Will allow a fully lawful hanging of W and his entire regime,
>
> See, first you have to prove that he was involved in war crimes, which
> you have not.
..see below.
>> Which is precisely why Sissy Boy George tries to destroy the US War
>> Crimes Act and the Conventions, NATO and the US.
>>
> You keep making this claim, but you can't provide evidence to that
> effect.
..I havent? Chk Google News for Iraq or Afghanistan or Abu Graib or
Gitmo and chk some of the news stories against the Conventions in
http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/genevaconventions?
OpenDocument
>> ..taking action on full compliance to the full 4 Geneva Conventions, is
>> how peace negotiations with Muslims, become _credible_.
>>
> Actually, there is absolutely no way that peace negotiations with *any*
> Muslim extremitsts can have *any* credibility whatsoever. It's like a
> lamb negotiating with a wolf about where to eat lunch.
..aye, and you 'n W tries to pretend you're the lamb.
>> > Cite? The New Testament tells Christians to pray for their enemies,
>> > unless your translation mistranslates "pray" as "kill".
..historically, I can see how these "compromises" were made.
>> > I do know that there is at least one instance in the Old Testament
>> > where the Israelite were commanded to wipe out an entire people. Is
>> > that what you are referring to?
>>
>> ..aye. POW's too have a specific mention.
>
> Where?
..chk your bible for "prisoner of war" and "prisoners of war", not
"POW's", I can't remember whether or not it the singular or pluralis term
or even the language I read it in, but I do remember it did not use the
abbreviation. ;o)
>> > What makes you think that I am an anti-Semite and more generally that
>> > anyone in full compliance with the Bible is an anti-Semite?
>>
>> ..you say you're ok with making Jew Semites and Jew non-Semites
>> suppress Christian and Muslim Semites in Palestine and the Middle East
>> in full compliance with the Bible and in violation to both Sharia and
>> the full 4 Geneva Conventions.
>>
> More of this nonsense, huh?
..this is nonsense how?
>> > You remember your history incorrectly. The muslims conquered
>> > Jerusalem in AD 638. The First Crusade besieged Jerusalem in 1099.
>> > So, the muslims were making war against the Jews and Christians for
>> > 461 years before the start of the First Crusade. Care to revise your
>> > statement?
>>
>> ..irrelevant, your sophisticated Slobo-style shill dance proves you
>> fully understand the "_if_" concept.
>>
> What are you talking about?
..chk out soc.culture.yugoslavia or alt.war.yugoslavia for the 1990ies
Balkan propaganda war treads I took part in and compare your own style
and line of argument with those of the Slobo shills.
>> > This argument always gets trotted out.
>>
>> ..me being comfortable with converting to Islam is "This argument
>> always gets trotted out" how? Or are you arguing "the Nazis never
>> gassed the Jews"???
>>
> No. The argument to which I was referring was with regard to the
> violent way in which Christianity has been spread. That way is not at
> all in compliance with the Bible.
..no? The Bible does not authorize genocide on "pagan nations"?
>> > What glimmer of hope could you/we offer that prevent them from
>> > wanting to exterminate Christianity or Judaism?
>>
>>
>> ..full compliance to the full 4 Geneva Conventions, as in arrest and
>> try and jail or hang our own war criminals first, airlift out the Jews,
>> then disengage and offer peace negotiations and a fair deal.
>>
>>
> Wow. You are even more naive than I though.
..uhuh. You have convinced me you will serve Mankind and the US best in
a noose like Saddam. The fact that the US. Israel and NATO is _able_ to
exterminate Muslims with nukes, does _not_ give us a _right_ to do it.
>> ..the fact is, white christian EUropeans (yanks 'n dixies 'n Jews
>> included) has _NEVER_ tried truthfully offering non-whites or Muslims,
>> Hindus etc a fair deal. So, I think it is worth a try, even if your
>> Regime has a problem with it, it is however supposed to be replaced
>> with an Administration on Jan 20'th 2009 or as soon as the USA
>> Complies.
>>
> A fair deal? To the people who within 30 years of coming into existence
> as a group went about conquering lands which had rightfully belonged to
> the Jews for thousands of years? Oh yeah, they are most deserving.
> Perhaps they are ones who need to give the rest of the world a "fair
> deal."
..this here is not anti-Semitic how?
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> [0] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
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